An interview conducted by ‘MayZine’, The May 18 Memorial Foundation, Gwangju, South Korea, forwarded by the Asian Human Rights Commission
1. You have been active in human rights and social action issues continuously since you were young, did you have any personal experience since you were childhood that makes you devoted your life and time to be actively engage in human rights and social action issue?
I was influenced by my father, who taught us to be truthful, always. ”If I am wrong, have courage to point that out,” he used to say. My mother taught us courage through her way of living. “Being an example is better than giving advice” was the motto of the primary school I attended, and “Duty first” the motto of the secondary school.
I have also been inspired by the radical teachings of the Second Vatican Council and the radical teachings of Gautama Buddha, who caused one of the greatest socio-religious moments in India, opposing deeply entrenched caste-based discrimination. The life work of Dr. B.R. Ambedkar, the great Indian statesman who was one of the leaders of the modern Dalit movement, and the Danish folk school movement inspired by N.F.S Grundtwig, has also deeply influenced me.
A push factor for my involvement in human rights was the collapse of my own country, Sri Lanka, into a prolonged period of violence and repression, beginning in 1971 due to a disproportionate state reaction to a minor rebellion in the South, and then into period of extreme violence in the North and the East which impacted in causing serious insecurity for ordinary folk living in all parts of the country. This period also saw an immense constitutional crisis, which upset the basic legal structure of the country. This has deprived ordinary citizens of a protective environment. Being a lawyer by profession, and a poet, I deeply felt and shared the helplessness of the ordinary folk living under such dangerous circumstances. In a book published this month in my first language, Sinhala, entitled A confession of a lawyer, I have tried to point out the crisis of the public justice system in Sri Lanka, which, among other things, has undermined the professional role of lawyers to discharge their duties to their clients. The clients who are most helpless are the victims of human rights abuses, who have no legal avenues through which to pursue redress for their losses and grievances. A culture of impunity creates a culture of helplessness for the ordinary folk, and particularly the poor.
I felt this strongly during my nearly three years of work in Cambodia, where I went as a senior UN officer in the early 1990s. What the Cambodian people have undergone is beyond imagination and is hard to express. One of the continuing problems in Cambodia is the loss of a functioning public justice system.
2. Would you elaborate the philosophy behind the creation of AHRC?
When one speaks of human rights organizations and their histories we should always bear in mind that what we really refer to are the problems of societies, the problems of the people living in the societies. Taken in this perspective, whether we speak of the last 30 years or the coming 30 years, one would see, certain important issues that are common in all the Asian countries.
That being said, each country has its unique set of problems particularly, in relation to the type of evolutions – that has taken place over time – of the different political institutions and the public justice systems. They have a direct bearing on the distinct types of human rights problems that people faced as a result.
Let us then, first, look into the past 30 years. As you know, 30 years is quite a long period of time in the life of an individual and what all these individuals in Asia experienced during the past years of their lives is of grave significance. On the other hand, it can also be said that 30 years, taken in a historical sense, is only a short period of time. Certain events may have taken place during that particular 30 year period, and such events may have been connected to events which took place during earlier periods and likewise all these events may have links dating as far back as to several centuries- and therefore, such series of events may be connected to what took place within the last 50 years of our history and would similarly manifest themselves in the next 50 years to come. Both these factors are important when considering every small moment in the lives of individual citizens. Added to this, when speak of the many problems of human rights we must also equally consider the larger picture of the history of each country.
In this light, Asian countries in the last 30 years witnessed the surfacing of an enormous amount of tension; tension, from struggles for democracy; tensions from struggles for the expansion of freedoms of people; tensions from experiencing severe forms of authoritarian systems; and tensions from such systems’ practices of various forms of repression.
I will try to elaborate on some aspects of the struggles for the expansion of freedoms in Asian countries in general;
Firstly, from the point of view of education of the masses or whom we refer to as ‘ordinary folk’ there have been vast levels of changes in many of the countries in Asia. The degree of this change varies from country to country. However, to say that ‘education in the Asian Continent has undergone a colossal change’ is an accurate statement. This colossal change has a substantial impact on the development of the discourse on human rights.
It is education that contributed to the possibility of development of social movements within Asia. 19th Century literature makes references to the ‘common folk’ as being mere ‘passive peasants’. In example, a leading figure in modern Chinese literature Lu Xun very strongly critiqued people’s passiveness and their archaic habits which have been a part of the Chinese culture. A predominant theme of Lu Xun’s writing is an exhortation to the people, calling on them to ‘modernize their minds’. What Xun meant by ‘modernizing their minds’ was to learn of the changes- to learn the changes that were taking place not only in China, but in the world, particularly in the west. Similar critiques can also be traced in many other countries in Asia. In India, writers and social reformers worked steadfastly against oppressive and discriminative practices such as the caste systems and other social discriminatory customs particularly, relating to the way women were treated in societies and urged for radical reforms. These are all common features in Asia.
These times also witnessed in all Asian countries -even amongst the poorest strata of society – an opening of opportunities for children to obtain a formal education and in certain countries opportunities were extended to more extensive education for some.
Besides these changes, there was at the time, the development of another form of education across Asia. It was introduced by way of modern media, the radio to begin with, later by television broadcasts, print media such as newspapers, and today through the electronic media. This trend in providing access to information was one of the major factors that gave rise to change.
Similarly, political and social movements too were constantly evolving. In some countries, for example in China, revolutionary movements virtually changed the entire character of the nation. These revolutions although – they may have brought their own forms of repressions- directed the change from how these societies were functioning in the past. These movements revolted against the subjugation of the ordinary people and made them considerably change into more powerful persons or groups.
In addition to all this, the period also witnessed vast changes in infrastructure within each country; with the improvement of roads, railways and eventually air-transport. Today, large numbers of persons – even those from very poor backgrounds- make use of all these facilities including air transport, to migrate to foreign countries, particularly for employment. Understanding all these aspects in such transformations – is of utmost importance in trying to understand the problems of human rights of the people of Asia.
The very fact that the overall ethos of Asia is one in which people themselves are engaged in changing their ways of life and through a very natural process – is the single most basic condition that creates massive opportunities for change in the field of human rights.
This positive factor should always be taken into consideration at all times, when we speak about the very serious human rights issues that still persists in Asia – and which often frustrates any person who wishes to engage in the promotion of human rights and for change. While the negative factors weigh overwhelmingly, in almost all the countries in Asia, what should be commended upon and what all human rights organisations and other activists should pay the greatest heed to is the positive factor that even today Asian societies through a natural process and by themselves alone- are engaged in attempts to change.
3. Your approach to human rights was quite radical from most human rights work in the region when you joined the Asian Human Rights Commission. You focused on assisting victims of human rights violations and activists from within the communities who were supporting the victims, rather than propagating human rights from urban centers. What gave you courage to taken that radical action at that time?
Our approach to human rights was indeed a radical departure from most human rights work in the region at the time it was also a more pragmatic approach to dealing with this crisis that was widespread in Asia, even today. We focused on assisting victims of human rights violations and activists from within the communities who were supporting the victims, rather than propagating human rights from urban centres. Moreover, we began analysing precisely why and how principles of human rights were not being incorporated in, and implemented through, national public justice systems. Also, we began engaging in lobbying and advocacy from outside the country where human rights abuses were taking place in ways that supported and protected victims and informants.
We have at the AHRC painstakingly documented human rights violations in the countries in which they work, and published them in AHRC’s Annual Reports. We have produced several monumental works, which include the book Narrative of Justice in Sri Lanka told through stories of torture victims that documents 1,500 cases of police torture in Sri Lanka between 1998 and 2011, and article 2, a quarterly journal that analyses recent developments in the implementation of human rights standards in Asia.Torture – Asian And Global Perspectives and Ethics in Action are also regular publications. We have also done extensive work in exposing and reducing the number of forced disappearances and in assisting victims. It has documented a number of disappearances in a “Cyberspace Graveyard”, available atwww.disappearances.org
4. You ever mentioned in some interview that, “the biggest success of the AHRC include establishing a new perspective on dealing with human rights abuses and making the subject a central theme in public consciousness,” What was inspired you?
All the experience I described above compelled me and my colleagues to look for new approaches to protect and promote human rights. Our search led us to highlight the content and meaning of Article 2 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, which requires all states to take legislative, judicial and administrative measures to implement human rights. This article is commonly violated in almost all Asian countries. The sharpest expression of this violation is the virtual absence of functional public justice systems. If human rights is to be taken seriously by the people, creating functional public justice institutions is the most important task to be faced.
It is to this work that our Asian Human Rights Commission is committed. It is a difficult objective to pursue. But it is a necessary objective, if people are to live human lives. The de-humanization that we have all around is the result of many failures to pursue justice. Injustice and dehumanization mean the same thing.
We are constantly being inspired by the courage and the tenacity of the victims of human rights abuses; the victims of torture and extra-judicial killings, victims of slave like working and living conditions, women who suffer grave form of violence in the name of traditions and culture, the family members of the disappeared, and particularly the poor everywhere. The tenacious fight for survival of all these persons, often the wretched of the humanity, is the greatest cause for hope and the greatest inspiration for human rights work to protect and promote human rights. This work needs to be done.
5. In 2001, you won the Gwangju Prize for Human Rights, from your point of view, how the Gwangju Prize for Human Rights can have more contribution in promoting and advancing human rights, democracy and peace in South Korea and abroad?
The Gwangju Prize has its origins in the Gwangju uprising of 1980. This is a very important moment in the history of Asia. It was an expression of commitment to democracy for South Korea. But, it has significance to Asia as well as the world. As the Gwangju Prize promotes and sustains the memory of the Gwangju uprising it’s a very important award.
The Gwangju city itself is now considered as a human rights city. However, problems of democracy is still quite serious even in South Korea. It can be said that the struggle for democracy is still at the very early stages. In terms of Asia, for many countries, achieving democracy has not become an easy task. There are many grave and serious problems. As this Prize recognizes, people who are engaged in these difficult struggles, it is a very meaningful prize. It has a definite message which is the commitment to the promotion of democracy.
6. What do you think on the future of human rights in Asia, and why?
During the past two decades of our work we had a direct exposure to the conditions under which people live and the institutions under which people attempt to protect their rights. We began to witness that the system of governance and the system of justice itself as being a contributor to violence and this has remained to be a bewildering experience of most people in Asia, particularly the poor. From the work we carried out we quite clearly began to see that the systems of governance ad that of justice not merely deny people of their rights but in fact they are opposed to the rule of law and the fundamental norms of human rights. We have documented this experience of the basic systems opposing the rule of law and human rights through a large body of documentation that is available in print as well as electronic media and is made available through several websites. Among the most notable contributions are ‘The narrative of justice in Sri Lanka – told through the stories of torture victims’ and the most recently published book by one of our colleagues who is also a member of our staff of the Australian National University Dr Nick Cheesman, published under the title “Opposing the rule of law – How Myanmar’s Courts make law and order” published by the Cambridge University. Also the Quarterly Magazines Article 2 and Torture, Asian and Global Perspectives, and State of Human Rights in 12 countries in Asia and annual publication contains valuable record about the knowledge gathered on the actual state of human rights in Asia.
On the basis of our learning we have arrived at the following conclusions.
1. The major focus of human rights work in Asian countries and in developing countries in general should be the reforms of institutions of governance and the administration of justice to enable such institutions to protect the rights of the people.
2. In order to achieve this it is essential to develop a new generation of human rights activists who are able to understand the tasks associated with such institutional reforms, and thereby to be educators of the people on this issue.
3. It is essential to convince the global human rights movement including the United Nation’s human rights agencies including the treaty bodies to understand the unique obstacles to the realisation of human rights in the developing countries due to problems of the systems of governance and the systems of justice in these countries.
4. Among the priorities are the reform of criminal justice institutions in particular namely the policing systems particularly in relation to investigation of crimes, agencies dealing with bribery and corruption, the prosecution and judicial reforms and the overall improvement of the rule of law as the basis for the protection of rights.
7. From your point of view, what is the significance of May 18 Movement in 1980 for Human Rights, Democracy, and peace building in Asia and whole the world? And why?
May 18 Movement in 1980, is one of the most important events in the Asian history but also in the history of the world. It has been compared to the ‘Paris Commune’. The very fact that a whole city stood together for a number days against military occupation makes this movement a very rare one. All thatstruggle with over 700,000 people participating, took place peacefully. It has been noted that there was no rioting, looting or any such incidents. It was a firm commitment, made in great solidarity. In fact, as an act of solidarity it is a very rare event and topping all that, a large number of people sacrificed their lives daring against the military knowing very well that in that struggle there was the greatest possible likelihood of their deaths. Thinking of their country’s future, they thought to die without bowing down would be the contribution that they could make to save the morale of the people. The very defiance they demonstrated in such a way was a call for resistance by others, and indeed that resistance did arise and continued till the military dictatorship was brought down. As a result, a foundation was laid for a vibrant democracy.
However, it is yet an incomplete task, Forces against democracy are still powerful in South Korea. The challenge that arises from the uprising is, to see how to face the new challenges and make the dream of 1980, come true. From that point of view, this movement has a message to the entire world.
8. The Gwangju Prize for Human Rights was created in 2000 in an effort to promote the spirit of the May 18 Democratic Uprising. The Prize has faithfully inherited the objectives of its predecessors, ‘5.18 Citizen’s Award’ and ‘Yun Sang-won Award.’ Selected individuals or organizations are from around the worlds that have made significant contributions to the advancement of human rights, unity, solidarity, and world peace. Since 2000 until 2015 the May 18 Memorial Foundation has been awarded the Gwangju Prize for Human Rights to 20 individuals or an organization, from your point of view what do all the previous laureates have to do in order to enhancing Democracy and human rights in Asia?
All laureates, should work towards the following;
Improving the knowledge about the actual context of Asian countries in relation to the implementation of human rights;
Work towards generating a discourse aimed at understanding the problem of dysfunctional institutions and how to overcome them;
Work towards training a new generation of human rights activists who are committed to achieving the changes needed for actual implementation of human rights;
Work towards improving the discourse in the developed countries on the problems of human rights implementation in the developing countries; and
Work towards generating greater solidarity for practical work of implementation of rights to make better the conditions of people living in extremely difficult circumstances.
9. Based on your own experience and expertise, which country/region in Asia which has serious human rights violation problem? And what the civil societies have to do to overcome it?
The ALRC has closely studied the system of justice in Myanmar for the past 15 years. We have published many reports. The basic conclusion of all these studies is that the problem of Myanmar’s justice system is not merely about its judiciary, but about the overall system itself. The system opposes the rule of law principles.
The basic strategic question that arises is that mere education of judges and lawyers will not suffice to change the overall structure, which is a basic structure that is opposed to the rule of law.
To change this fundamental institution, a strategy is required to open up the system towards a system based on the rule of law. If this is ignored, and mere reliance is made on the education of judges and lawyers, one of the possible results will be that despite improved education the lawyers and judges will have no space within the justice system to play a meaningful role and that they will be ignored and undermined.
Further , there are rather unhappy experiences in this regard in the Asian region itself, and one such example is the experience of Cambodia since the UN sponsored election in May 1993.
As a result of this election, a constitution was adopted which stated that Cambodia will be a liberal democracy. However, in the last two decades, the experience in Cambodia is that the basic legal structure that existed in Cambodia prior to the 1993 elections is still basically intact. The system is completely controlled by the Executive and the system that exists in Cambodia is one that still opposes the rule of law principles.
Thus, at this stage itself, attention must be paid to ways in which the overall character of the legal system, one that currently opposes the rule of law, can be gradually changed into one that accepts the principles and the overall basic structure required for the protection of rule of law. The primary challenge is to find ways to change the overall basic structure of the legal system and, at this stage itself, efforts must be made for this purpose.
In close consultation with the many lawyers who are opposed to the existing structure of the legal system and who want some significant changes in the basic structure itself, new avenues could be created to undo the factors within the legal system that oppose the rule of law. This would require agents of change who would work closely with quite a large section of the legal fraternity in Myanmar that is in favour of democratisation and for the development of a legal system based on the rule of law.
What is implied here is that extensive documentation of the actual experiences of these lawyers about this system should be one of the important knowledge bases for working towards change of the legal and the judicial system of Cambodia. With the development of cooperation between legal scholars from abroad, international human rights organisations, and the local lawyers who are opposed to the system, it would be possible to develop practical schemes by which suggestions could be made and pursued in order to transform Myanmar’s legal system from one that opposes the rule of law to one that will be based on the rule of law.
10. Would you please give some message for Gwangju Citizens
I am proud to be associated with the tradition of the Gwangju uprising of 1980. I have the most profound respect for those who sacrificed their lives in tat struggle, without surrendering and thereby not allowing their people’s to be enslaved. This incomplete struggle must be continued with commitment, great insights and solidarity as it was demonstrated in 1980.
While congratulating all Gwangju citizens for their unique commitment to democracy and human rights, we encourage them to continue that struggle to the end and to inspire the others in the world.
The May 18 Memorial Foundation
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